Incompetence everywhere..

motco

Zorg Legend
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Points
74
Location
Chilterns
Model of Z
Z3 2.2i Sport
I deal with incompetence every day with my work. I pay sub-contractors a lot of money to carry out work for me (as I'm too old and knackered).
I have issues with 8 out of 10 jobs they do.
There seems to be no pride in what people do for a living anymore. It's just what they have to do to pay for their three holidays every year and be able to service the debts on their PCP Mercs, it would seem.
I drew up this Law some years ago and the only changes have been for the worse.

Motco's Law of Universal Incompetence:

"Always assume that the professional person, service operative, tradesperson, artisan, or other individual with whom you are dealing is incompetent unless, and until, they demonstrate to the contrary"


Follow this rule and you will rarely be disappointed. It applies to all walks of life from brain surgeons to garbage sorters, and lawyers to checkout operators. Members of this forum excepted, obviously.
 

AntStark

Zorg Guru (III)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
May 15, 2021
Points
143
Location
Hampshire
Model of Z
2002 3.0 Sport
Holy cow man, that shock could have failed and sheered both those bolts off. I would be having a serious word with that garage.

Plus, teach you for not coming to see us with biscuits in hand!

I get the main point though, I work in the Nuclear industry and it's a big issue, more so people taking accountability for their actions.
😆 I will do mate, don’t you worry! The front was done way before the rear was done at the shed…I should have asked you to inspect the work nonetheless. ..now wondering what else is missing. Thankfully there is bolt on the otherside..and I drive like an old woman 😉
 
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  • Wow
Reactions: Lee

Jamezee

Zorg Guru (III)
British Zeds
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Points
137
Location
Peak District
Model of Z
Z3 2.2 sport, Z4 Coupe 3.0Si, E38 728i Oxford green and beige interior
The Country and western civilisation is going to hell in a handcart unless it unscrews itself. Truth as Don might say hurts but its the truth. oooof cancel talk. :whistle:
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Lee

DavidM

Zorg Expert (I)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Points
208
Location
Ireland
Model of Z
2.8 Roadster
Agree with all comments - there’s no concept of quality / doing a good job - take the money and run attitudes prevail in modern society!
 

Pond

Zorg Guru (III)
British Zeds
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Points
144
Location
Spaldingski, Lincs
Model of Z
Z3 project
there’s no concept of quality / doing a good job
There are still people who do want to do a good job. Problem is they are the exception rather than the rule and are difficult (almost impossible) to find.
And, certainly in my recent experience, those who do a good job and know what they are doing are lauded as some kind of God and are charged out at ridiculous rates.

I was always taught to do a good job the first time, every time, and the work will always be there. The satisfaction of doing a good job and helping people (albeit being paid for it) has always been a great incentive IMO. But I am old and out of date, apparently.
 

D R Oldfield

Zorg Guru (II)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Points
105
Location
Barrow-in-Furness
Model of Z
2.8
I own a Domestic Appliance Repair Business and have been trading about 40 years , what amazes me is the quality of repairs that are being done by other engineers even manufacturers service engineers it really is appalling , i was always told treat it as if it was your mothers , but we have definetly lost that ethos, or some have
 

AntStark

Zorg Guru (III)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
May 15, 2021
Points
143
Location
Hampshire
Model of Z
2002 3.0 Sport
So after a detailed explanation of why the calipers they sent me were wrong, the replacement arrived today (one on the right). I give up ! :confused:
IMG_0399.jpeg

On the upside at least my wheels are attached to my shocks now 😀
IMG_0405.jpeg
 
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ktnez99

Zorg Guru (IV)
British Zeds
Joined
May 18, 2018
Points
164
Location
West Midlands
Model of Z
Z3 2.8L
Good new about the shocks...not so great about the calliper issue, though. Having given them an opportunity to sort this out, I'd be returning both, at their expense, and buying from somewhere reliable.
 

AntStark

Zorg Guru (III)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
May 15, 2021
Points
143
Location
Hampshire
Model of Z
2002 3.0 Sport
So..the saga continues and the incompetence compounds ..honestly you couldn’t write this. I agreed to return my second incorrect caliper by the same means I received it ..Evri next day delivery..that was last Wednesday morning when I dropped it off at the corner shop. Today! (Monday) they collected it from the corner shop 😕. I have learnt there is no point even trying to complain to Evri, just accept they are crap and move on.
IMG_0507.png

On a more positive note it means I’ve had chance to remove, derust and paint the carriers in a nice satin black. Even got new bolts for it delivered.
IMG_0509.jpeg
 

AntStark

Zorg Guru (III)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
May 15, 2021
Points
143
Location
Hampshire
Model of Z
2002 3.0 Sport
Well ..what a palava..the final episode in this tale. The brake place refused to refund the £15 postage cost I had incurred returning their incorrect calipers (twice)..offered me ‘credit’ instead. That aside and having fitted the nearside caliper I then go to fit the drivers side only to realise the pistons in the caliper are the wrong internal diameter and won’t hold the pads. All I can say is thank god for eBay buyer protection and ‘guaranteed fit’. I haven’t got the postage back but did get a full refund for the pair through eBay by returning the single caliper. ..so it effectively cost me £15 for a refurbed BMW ATE one. Anyway, I just bought a Febi for the other side that arrived the next day…front brakes on both sides are now done and look smart with the freshly painted carriers. I hope the rears are a bit less hassle. 😀
IMG_0589.jpeg
IMG_0593.jpeg

oh, I replaced the manky rusty bolts holding the arch liners in whilst I was at it ..these are excellent and dirt cheap
IMG_0595.jpeg
 

ktnez99

Zorg Guru (IV)
British Zeds
Joined
May 18, 2018
Points
164
Location
West Midlands
Model of Z
Z3 2.8L
Appalling “service”, Ant. It’s everywhere, though. I’ve no idea why. It was always instilled in me to do the very best I can do and that’s stayed with me, to my core. Sadly, “customer service” appears very lacking across virtually everything including those, especially those, companies allegedly offering products and services to our Zs, present company accepted that do sterling work to keep our Zs on the road.

I’m of the opinion that companies see £££s and won’t turn the work/order away despite knowing they can’t do the job/fulfil the contract. It’s us that suffer the consequences of their incompetence.
 

Tony Francis

Zorg Addict
British Zeds
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Points
56
Location
South Somerset
Model of Z
Z3 1.8 M43TU
What a nightmare Ant, still the finished job looks good!
As the former owner of my Zed you might be interested in my own experience of dreadful service earlier this year. Bear with me as it’s a bit of a long story! Background was that last year I went to the Zed Shed and Lee and the team did their usual excellent job on some suspension work. At the time Lee pointed out a small oil leak from the front crankshaft seal, not a difficult job on the M43 engine.
Anyway the leak wasn’t bad and early this year I got around to booking the car in with a busy local garage for the seal to be replaced - they had had the car in before for things like oil change & MOT and work had always appeared to be satisfactory. So on the day I get a call to say as well as the front seal, it’s the sump gasket and they also suspected the rear crankshaft seal was leaking. I was a bit surprised but agreed that they do both these in addition to the front seal = large bill!
So I get the car back and all seems well, although I didn’t get under the car to look at everything, why would I?
A couple of weeks later I noticed a leak from the radiator header tank, unrelated to the work just done I am sure but an unwelcome expense after the oil leak bill. I go back to the garage who can’t fit me in for 3 weeks so I book it in anyway. Talking to a friend in the village, he suggested a local “one man band garage” who he used and might be able to do the radiator sooner. Sure enough this chap can do the job in about a week so in it goes. Imagine my surprise and shock when he calls me on the day about the serious oil leak from the sump and did I know several of the sump bolts were loose!!
He still had the car on the ramp so I went over and he showed me, several of the bolts were so loose I could unscrew them with my fingers. At this point I explained to him that just a couple of weeks ago another garage had changed the seals & the sump gasket, and on hearing this he went to check the gearbox mounting bolts which were also loose. He torqued them all up and cleaned off the oil as best he could and I took the car away with my new radiator.
Now remember I already a booking at the oil leak garage for the radiator which was now done, but I am pretty steaming about the shoddy workmanship of their oil leak ”repairs”. So in I go and have a serious conversation with the owner who is polite but no apologies. I told him I wanted the booking I already had to be used to ensure the oil leaks were fixed properly and as the MOT was near I wanted the test done as well.
So the Zed goes in on the day and passes the MOT with an advisory for a “fluid leak”. I get the receptionist to fetch the owner again to find out exactly what this is. Oh no, he says, it’s not an oil leak, that is all fine. You’ve got a leak from your power steering pump. Basically I don’t believe him so a few days later having checked the PS fluid level I go back to the chap who did the radiator and ask him to take a look. Sure enough no leak from the power steering pump but it looks like the front crank seal. Aaaargh!
He keeps the car for a few days and does the front crank seal - the one that comes out is the original BMW seal, in his opinion and he points out that the pulleys have not been cleaned of oil and general crap, and the contaminated belts have not been replaced (which he does).
So, the oil leak garage not only charged me for a part they didn’t fit (front seal), their work was to an appalling standard and then when challenged about it they just lied rather than do anything to put it right. Needless to say they have lost my business, and that of my wife, and a few friends who will never go there again after hearing my horror story.
With thanks to those who have persevered to the end of this post!
 

Pond

Zorg Guru (III)
British Zeds
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Points
144
Location
Spaldingski, Lincs
Model of Z
Z3 project
I've got another one from a main Ford dealer!
Friend of mine has a 2014 Ford Kuga diesel. He is not a mechanic. He is as far from a mechanic as anyone could be. He is the type who needs instructions on where to put the diesel. Anyway....

He asked his nearest main Ford dealer, T.C.Harrison (Peterborough), to carry out a regular service on his Kuga. The day before it went in to them the engine light came on, so he asked them to have a look while they were there. They did the service and charged him for a 'diagnostic inspection' aswell.

They told him the ECU of the car was faulty and he needed a new one. They quoted around £2,500 including fitting. They did say that it was 'probably' the ECU and wouldn't be pushed further. So he reluctantly asked them to get the part. They came back and told him the part was no longer available so couldn't get it. When he asked what he was supposed to do , they advised him to scrap the car and get a new one!!

He was not impressed, obviously. So he asked around trying to find more info on this ECU problem with a hope of finding a new one, or at least getting it 100% confirmed.
He found another indie garage in Peterborough (through a friend of a friend) who has the Ford diagnostic software.
One visit to them and £50 later, the car is fixed and back on the road with no faults!

It was a blocked DPF!! One forced regeneration and all cleared! Warning lights gone, car drives perfectly.

Now he, and I, can't work out if the Ford main dealer T.C. Harrison (Peterborough) are totally incompetent or were trying to sell him a new car, or both.

I have highlighted the garage name just so people know who they are!
 

Jam03

Zorg Guru (III)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
Feb 21, 2022
Points
139
Location
Surrey
Model of Z
2.2i
My local garage lie to me every time I go there. It seems the only thing that keeps them honest is their own workload, so they’re keen to get you on your way so as not to clog up their workshop. I had a radiator on our family car replaced to cure a slow leak. One of the guys told me a stone had gone through. On inspection, there is no way that could have happened because it’s behind another one. It was of no consequence because I knew there was a leak, but it’s annoying that a constant stream of lies to fob off customers is the norm. Also, MOT’s are a joke, latest one on the Z failed for indicator bulbs not orange enough and headlight aim too high…now I can’t see a thing at night on main beam because they are aimed too low.
 

ktnez99

Zorg Guru (IV)
British Zeds
Joined
May 18, 2018
Points
164
Location
West Midlands
Model of Z
Z3 2.8L
What a nightmare Ant, still the finished job looks good!
As the former owner of my Zed you might be interested in my own experience of dreadful service earlier this year. Bear with me as it’s a bit of a long story! Background was that last year I went to the Zed Shed and Lee and the team did their usual excellent job on some suspension work. At the time Lee pointed out a small oil leak from the front crankshaft seal, not a difficult job on the M43 engine.
Anyway the leak wasn’t bad and early this year I got around to booking the car in with a busy local garage for the seal to be replaced - they had had the car in before for things like oil change & MOT and work had always appeared to be satisfactory. So on the day I get a call to say as well as the front seal, it’s the sump gasket and they also suspected the rear crankshaft seal was leaking. I was a bit surprised but agreed that they do both these in addition to the front seal = large bill!
So I get the car back and all seems well, although I didn’t get under the car to look at everything, why would I?
A couple of weeks later I noticed a leak from the radiator header tank, unrelated to the work just done I am sure but an unwelcome expense after the oil leak bill. I go back to the garage who can’t fit me in for 3 weeks so I book it in anyway. Talking to a friend in the village, he suggested a local “one man band garage” who he used and might be able to do the radiator sooner. Sure enough this chap can do the job in about a week so in it goes. Imagine my surprise and shock when he calls me on the day about the serious oil leak from the sump and did I know several of the sump bolts were loose!!
He still had the car on the ramp so I went over and he showed me, several of the bolts were so loose I could unscrew them with my fingers. At this point I explained to him that just a couple of weeks ago another garage had changed the seals & the sump gasket, and on hearing this he went to check the gearbox mounting bolts which were also loose. He torqued them all up and cleaned off the oil as best he could and I took the car away with my new radiator.
Now remember I already a booking at the oil leak garage for the radiator which was now done, but I am pretty steaming about the shoddy workmanship of their oil leak ”repairs”. So in I go and have a serious conversation with the owner who is polite but no apologies. I told him I wanted the booking I already had to be used to ensure the oil leaks were fixed properly and as the MOT was near I wanted the test done as well.
So the Zed goes in on the day and passes the MOT with an advisory for a “fluid leak”. I get the receptionist to fetch the owner again to find out exactly what this is. Oh no, he says, it’s not an oil leak, that is all fine. You’ve got a leak from your power steering pump. Basically I don’t believe him so a few days later having checked the PS fluid level I go back to the chap who did the radiator and ask him to take a look. Sure enough no leak from the power steering pump but it looks like the front crank seal. Aaaargh!
He keeps the car for a few days and does the front crank seal - the one that comes out is the original BMW seal, in his opinion and he points out that the pulleys have not been cleaned of oil and general crap, and the contaminated belts have not been replaced (which he does).
So, the oil leak garage not only charged me for a part they didn’t fit (front seal), their work was to an appalling standard and then when challenged about it they just lied rather than do anything to put it right. Needless to say they have lost my business, and that of my wife, and a few friends who will never go there again after hearing my horror story.
With thanks to those who have persevered to the end of this post!
This is exactly what I mean: these garages take our cars in without knowledge or care of what to do and run roughshod over our purse/wallet strings and our trust in them to do what we are paying them to do!!! All they see is £££s 💷💷💷💷💷💷💷💷
It’s utterly immoral and infuriating!!!
 

ktnez99

Zorg Guru (IV)
British Zeds
Joined
May 18, 2018
Points
164
Location
West Midlands
Model of Z
Z3 2.8L
I've got another one from a main Ford dealer!
Friend of mine has a 2014 Ford Kuga diesel. He is not a mechanic. He is as far from a mechanic as anyone could be. He is the type who needs instructions on where to put the diesel. Anyway....

He asked his nearest main Ford dealer, T.C.Harrison (Peterborough), to carry out a regular service on his Kuga. The day before it went in to them the engine light came on, so he asked them to have a look while they were there. They did the service and charged him for a 'diagnostic inspection' aswell.

They told him the ECU of the car was faulty and he needed a new one. They quoted around £2,500 including fitting. They did say that it was 'probably' the ECU and wouldn't be pushed further. So he reluctantly asked them to get the part. They came back and told him the part was no longer available so couldn't get it. When he asked what he was supposed to do , they advised him to scrap the car and get a new one!!

He was not impressed, obviously. So he asked around trying to find more info on this ECU problem with a hope of finding a new one, or at least getting it 100% confirmed.
He found another indie garage in Peterborough (through a friend of a friend) who has the Ford diagnostic software.
One visit to them and £50 later, the car is fixed and back on the road with no faults!

It was a blocked DPF!! One forced regeneration and all cleared! Warning lights gone, car drives perfectly.

Now he, and I, can't work out if the Ford main dealer T.C. Harrison (Peterborough) are totally incompetent or were trying to sell him a new car, or both.

I have highlighted the garage name just so people know who they are!
BOTH!!! Without a doubt! 🤬
 

mikeyH

Zorg Addict
British Zeds
Joined
Mar 8, 2024
Points
54
Location
South Devon
Model of Z
2.2 Z4 E85
Yes, I very recently have had an appalling experience with a German car garage, Z4 went in for a service and came back with someone else damaged lower bumper grill. Unfortunately I didn't notice until some months later and of course they totally deny all knowledge of it.
 

the Nefyn cat

Zorg Guru (IV)
Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Points
174
Location
Actually in Nefyn. My, that took a while.
Model of Z
2.2i Sport
"Always assume that the professional person, service operative, tradesperson, artisan, or other individual with whom you are dealing is incompetent unless, and until, they demonstrate to the contrary"
Much the same thing applies to driving, assume all other drivers are utterly incompetent. or that's what my instructor told me. Mind you, that was in '73, maybe things have changed.



They haven't.
 

motco

Zorg Legend
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Points
74
Location
Chilterns
Model of Z
Z3 2.2i Sport
Indeed not! In fact the available power and speed coupled with a sense of invulnerability provided by modern driver aids, means that the lack of ability of modern boy racers can wreak far more serious damage than forty or fifty years ago.
I have a book entitled 'Man and Motorcar' by Dr Stephen Black, a psychologist who was appalled by the death toll from road accidents - he called it a modern epidemic. He began a study of the psychological aspects of drivers in 1959 and published the book of his conclusions in 1966. Many, if not all, of the findings are as relevant to today as they were then.
A notable part concerns anti-lock braking system such as the then newly launched Dunlop Maxeret system fitted to the Jensen Interceptor FF. 4WD and ABS version of the Interceptor. Black described a theoretical scenario to hypnotised subjects and suggested that they should firstly imagine a Sunbeam Rapier with the contemporary standard for performance cars of front discs with servo, and what would happen if, in emergency, the driver braked and sharply tried to change lanes at high speed. The car was destabilised and spun off the road as we have seen many times on 'Police Interceptors' TV shows. He then repeated the scene in the minds of the subjects but this time in a car fitted with ABS and told them that the car would slow controllably with brakes that didn't lock the wheels, and would be able to safely complete the same manoeuvre that caused the standard car to lose control. The reaction of the subjects - and I'm not quoting but paraphrasing - was to a man to say typically "That's fantastic! I could get away with murder in one of those!" None seemed impressed nor pleased with the general improvement in safety, but only with how it would give them an edge over their imagined competitors!
That is why your instructor in '73, and my brother in law who taught me a few years earlier than that, were correct in advising caution at all times and always to try to drive inside an imaginary glass sphere that would shatter if another vehicle came close enough. He, my B-i-L, had three advanced driving qualifications: IAM, CSMA, and League of Safe Drivers. These were crucial in his being chauffeur to the top man of a major construction company. The CSMA harked back to an earlier job as a postman - it's the Civil Service Motoring Association. He was borderline obsessive about safe driving.
 

Geoff Crispin

Zorg Guru (III)
British Zeds
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Points
145
Location
Somerset
Model of Z
Z3 3.0 & 3.0 sport
Is it a generational thing? I guess most on here are Boomers or Gen X.. we had a work ethic beaten into us or we went without ;)
I was born just before the Boomers period with ration books after the war and taught to value things and if asked to do a job do it well which I drummed into my two kids and both in good jobs carrying on that ethic to day, its so nice to see, rather than being a Bodger Bill like so many today
 
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